Bailiff refuse to give my car back.

The law: Part 75 of the Civil Procedure Rules.
#1) 

Bailiff refuse to give my car back.

Postby bscoban » 29 Aug 2012 12:30

Bailiff :- P woolcott Company Newlyn. Seizure 09/08/12 Original pcn issued 14/12/11. Car Purchased from relative on 24/5/12. PCN amount £127 Lewisham Council. Fees charged by bailiff at time of Levy £1686.

Car was taken while i was away, as my aunt hadn't sent off the change of keeper. So was still registered to her despite me owning it since 24/5/12. V5 sent immediately and received with change of keeper on 24/5/12.

My problem...

PCN issued on 14/12/11 on a car bought off a relative of mine on the 24/5/12. However, in absence the car was taken on 9th August 2012 as my relative didnt send in the change of keeper to dvla. Bailiff (NEWLYN) said the following must be provided to prove this....
1.Full V5
2.Insurance certificate to match date
3.Recepit
4.bank statement showing funds withdrawn
5.Sale advert

As it was a family transaction and the vehicle was bought as salvage as it was damaged i paid very little for it (£50) which has since been fixed so bank statment and sale advert are not applicable.

My relative sent the v5 straight away after hearing about the bailiff taking the car which came after 7 days and we now have the full v5 showing we have had the car since 24/5/12

We have sent them....

1.full v5
2.insurance cert
3.receipt
4.Sworn declaration
5.Mot
6.Picture of car damage at time of purchase

They are refusing to give the car back despite constant communication and a form 4 threat....they said "we don't BELIEVE this a legitimate sale" despite sending all the proofs they requested.
The council (Lewisham) where pcn was issued, were called, and told us we are lying about sending proofs as they spoke to the bailiffs and they told them they havent received anything ( despite confirming they have received documents over the phone on numerous occassions.

A formal complaint was written to the councils Mayor and as with all correspendence newlyn was copied in.

As of yesterday they said the formal complaint has been received and they are dealing with it and car will not be sold until it is resolved..! As they were saying the car would be auctioned today 29th august.

Should i continue with the form 4 and apply to small court for damages....? As they have had the car over three weeks and ruined the summer. They have all proofs to show the car was not owned by the debtor when they took it. Can they hold/sell the car still...?? Every time i ring Newlyn they say were are dealing with it....
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#2) 

Re: Bailiff refuse to give my car back.

Postby Amy » 29 Aug 2012 14:29

Have you read this thread - it is very similar to yours Back from holiday, bailiffs have taken our car
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#3) 

Re: Bailiff refuse to give my car back.

Postby jasonDWB » 29 Aug 2012 14:59

You can make the form 4, but only as a COMPLAINT. You complaint is the bailiff has unlawfully detained the car. Accompany the Form 4 with a sworn statement of events how the car trnasaction took place, perferably by the seller and the buyer.

Open a claim with the small claims court for the replacement cost of the car plus the costs of alternative transport, see what the judge will give you.

I offer a document drafting service in return for a £20 paypal donation, do let me know if you would like me to prepare the particulars of your claim, and the details of your Form 4 complaint for you. http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/donate.htm

Both statements, the buyer (you) and the seller (your relative) will need to have them sworn before a Commissioner of Oaths - usually a fee of £5 is payable per statement.
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#4) 

Re: Bailiff refuse to give my car back.

Postby bscoban » 05 Sep 2012 11:13

Thank you, i read the case you posted, and followed the advice, and the council dropped the action. But unfortunately the plot thickens....

Upon hearing the council dropped the action i called the bailiffs to arrange delivery of my car....they turned round and said there is another PCN on the vehicle for a different council so we are keeping it for that one now.

I have no clue of this PCN all i know is what council it is. The council have confirmed it dates to before i owned the car. I asked them for a copy of the warrant and the pcn number but they refuse to send it. They are being funny about commencing their investigation despite me sending them full v5, insurance, receipt and sworn declaration. They are demanding to see my driving license which is not with me at present before they make enquiries with the bailiff, ( despite already confirming i have sent them all required documents)

No warrant was served for this new PCN, the bailiffs took my car initially for a PCN and warrant that have now been dropped as i proved it wasn't for myself. Can they legally still hold my car...? They have had it now since early august.
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#5) 

Re: Bailiff refuse to give my car back.

Postby Amy » 05 Sep 2012 15:19

No, they cannot hold your car for a different PCN especially one that you knew nothing about.

Are you asking the council or the bailiffs for the PCN number? You need to ask the council.
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#6) 

Re: Bailiff refuse to give my car back.

Postby bscoban » 07 Sep 2012 17:30

HI,

Yes, i asked the council directly for the PCN details in writing, they refused to give me any information...!!!! and because i asked them to make their response with final Resolution...they have passed it on to the Coporate complaints team and i have been told i will hear from someone by the 2nd october....MADNESS..! They have had my vehicle since the 9th August..! Do i ask the LGO now to step in...?

Am lost..!
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#7) 

Re: Bailiff refuse to give my car back.

Postby Amy » 07 Sep 2012 19:16

So am I.

Have you filed the Form 4? Have you filed a court claim?
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#8) 

Re: Bailiff refuse to give my car back.

Postby jasonDWB » 09 Sep 2012 13:55

bscoban wrote:Thank you, i read the case you posted, and followed the advice, and the council dropped the action. But unfortunately the plot thickens....

Upon hearing the council dropped the action i called the bailiffs to arrange delivery of my car....they turned round and said there is another PCN on the vehicle for a different council so we are keeping it for that one now.

I have no clue of this PCN all i know is what council it is.

Can they legally still hold my car...? They have had it now since early august.


No they cant. Find out what council issued the other PCN then follow this:

http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/council-tax-received-bailiffs-without-warning.htm

When done, tablulate your costs and expenses, add £20 per day for the loss of lawful use of your car then send your bill to the council. When you get the excuses letter, file a Form N1. Ask for everything, thje jnudge can only say no. If you are on a low income, complete a Form EX160.

Alternatively, you can ask the Local Government Commissioner to intervene under Section 26 of the Local Government Act 1974. They can order the Council to stop all enforcement action, return your car and it has a power to order the Council to pay you compensation.
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#9) 

Re: Bailiff refuse to give my car back.

Postby bscoban » 05 Feb 2013 12:03

Hi,
Well GOOD NEWS...! After them having my car for 186 days. It was returned to me last saturday..!!!!!!! Turns out despite the warrant/pcn being to previous keeper, the car was returned on legality that they did not produce a legally templated warrant. Thus making the levy unlawful.

Happy Contrails.... The council have also admitted liability in writing. I now what to claim expenses could you let me know exactly how to do this...?

If your reading this keep fighting and don't give up.
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#10) 

Re: Bailiff refuse to give my car back.

Postby jasonDWB » 05 Feb 2013 13:17

Well done on getting the bailiffs matter concluded.

You now need to collate all your expenses for:


1. Rental cars,
2. Taxis
3. Use of public transport
4. anything else you paid or lost as a result of the loss of use of your car
5. Work out loss of Road Fund License including DVLA surrender and renewal charges
6. Unused motor insurance on the vehicle including cancellation and amendment fees
7. £10 for each day you were denied the use of your car.
8. Getting it valeted/serviced/MOTd to return it to road use.

Make sure the total is under £5000.

Write to the council with a simple letter acknowledging their letter that admits liability, and enclose the above list of costs and ask they pay you and set a 14 day deadline.

The £10 per day is what a county court normally awards for the unlawful deprivation of use of a vehicle, if your car has a substantial value or is a new car with a significant depreciation rate while it was out of your possession then you will need to add this in to your list as point #9 above.

If the council gives you an excuse letter, post it up with your personal details obscured and I can give you a choice of remedy.

The local Government Ombudsman, or the small claims court. With the latter you have a right to claim statutory interest on your expenses.

Once you have been paid, it is up to the council to settle its differences with Newlyn Bailiffs or their liability insurer.

It appears that Newlyn was acting under its own free will to target your car aftering finding it with their ANPR van and they failed to check with DVLA whether the car had a change of keeper since the date of contravention.
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#11) 

Re: Bailiff refuse to give my car back.

Postby Amy » 05 Feb 2013 16:46

Check it over thoroughly for any damage or marks that were not there before it was taken from you.

xx
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#12) 

Re: Bailiff refuse to give my car back.

Postby biggysilly » 05 Feb 2013 21:44

bscoban wrote:Hi,
Well GOOD NEWS...! After them having my car for 186 days. It was returned to me last saturday..!!!!!!! Turns out despite the warrant/pcn being to previous keeper, the car was returned on legality that they did not produce a legally templated warrant. Thus making the levy unlawful.

Happy Contrails.... The council have also admitted liability in writing. I now what to claim expenses could you let me know exactly how to do this...?

If your reading this keep fighting and don't give up.

Bull
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#13) 

Re: Bailiff refuse to give my car back.

Postby fair-parking » 06 Feb 2013 10:36

Would the OP mind letting us know which local authority admitted to an incorrect template?

Better still - why did they feel it was an incorrect?
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