Car owner or keeper responsible for PCN?

The law: Part 75 of the Civil Procedure Rules.
#1) 

Car owner or keeper responsible for PCN?

Postby mammothd » 04 May 2013 11:09

Who's responsible for paying a PCN- the owner (from V5 document) or the keeper.

The PCN was issued before i became the new owner. I have a sales receipt, although it was a private sale in cash (car only cost £900).

IT was owned by a company, and I've registered it in my company name, but insured it with me personally as the driver.It also states on insurance it's for social and business use.

If my car is clamped is the insurance document showing business use going to be enough to prove to him it's a tool of my trade, and therefore not removable.

I'm assuming he's going to say it's not enough proof (because it's in his interests to say that). What would I say in response?

I know someone who got clamped who had the new V5 showing ownership had changed,so my friend wasn't responsible for the PCN. But bailiff said that wasn't sufficient, and he'd need to see insurance document too. Is that correct, and if it is, why would he need to see it?

Let's say the insurance showed my friend was insured to drive the car at the time the PCN was issued (because he worked for the company who owned it), but then subsequently purchased it from the company. Could he be jointly held liable because he was insured to drive it when the PCN was issued?

I would have thought the debtor was only the person or company named on the warrant. Am I right?
mammothd
 
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#2) 

Re: Car owner or keeper responsible for PCN?

Postby jasonDWB » 04 May 2013 12:07

You can make an out of time appeal and say that you have just bought the car and the PCN is the responsibility of the previous keeper to name the driver. It you know the PCN number then this article explains the procedure for making an appeal: http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/St ... ailiff.htm

If the bailiff is concealing the PCN number from you then charge everything to the council, and the town hall can settle its costs with the bailiff company.

You don't need to provide insurance documents to a bailiff because you have no contract with them to do anything. It is a tort and if the bailiff commits a wrongful action against you then the council whom the bailiff is contracted by is liable for damages under the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977 and you bill the council , and if needed, reclaim it on a Form N1.

The insurance policy terms and in whose name it is in has no bearing on determining who is liable for traffic debts of the insured vehicle or deciding whether the vehicle has business use.

Bailiffs cannot use wheel clamps full stop. The regulations do not provide for it but bailiffs feel that clamping is a substitute for what is called 'closed possession'. If you are clamped and its done by an unregulated private company then you have the right to remove the clamp using bolt cutters: http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/cl ... rights.htm

The debtor is the person named on the warrant and its only enforceable against that person. The bailiff ought to know this, but if he continues enforcement against you, then he is being dishonest and you have a right to make a complaint against his fitness to continue trading as a bailiff. This is called making a form 4 complaint: http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/Ba ... plaint.htm
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#3) 

Re: Car owner or keeper responsible for PCN?

Postby mammothd » 04 May 2013 16:58

Thanks- the problem is not only don't I know the PCN,but I don't know which council either!

There doesn't seem to be any way you can trace PCNs via the vehicle reg. I've emailed TEC, and their automated replay states they have no way of tracing PCNs from a reg number.They obviously get loads of requests for this service.

Does anyone know how I can find out any PCN outstanding where I don't have to ring round every council in the country?
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#4) 

Re: Car owner or keeper responsible for PCN?

Postby jasonDWB » 04 May 2013 17:32

Telephone the previous owner and ask where he has been driving the car.

Without this information then litigating the bailiff company is the only way and the court might make a disclosure order to obtain the creditors name and address.

We have a good relationship with the PePiPoo fightback forums and they have experts, several are solicitors specialising in motoring law. Why not make a post there and ask for another way to get the PCN details and someone might be able to give you some pointers.
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