How do I go about suing the council?

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Avenger
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#1 How do I go about suing the council?

Post by Avenger » 19 Jun 2013 18:37

Having charged me for phantom visits I refused to pay the bailiffs and instead paid the council direct. The bailiffs then continued to pursue me for fees and even clamped my car. My case against the bailiffs is open and shut, however the council has a duty of care to ensure their bailiffs act within the law, but not only did South Glos Clouncil refuse to investigate, they simply forwarded my complaint to the bailiffs which in my view is a breach of confidentiality. They refused to investigate, regardless of the detailed legal information I sent them and stonewalled me all the way. Had they investigated and called their bailiffs to account, the whole business could have been avoided. I had sleepless nights listening out for bailiffs coming for my car even when only the unlawful fees were outstanding. The council could have investigated and intervened at any time and called them off but stonewalled me all the way even though the debt was paid.

I believe the recovery officer in question should face the sack, if not criminal prosecution, but due to the stress it has caused, I want SGC to pay. How do I go about it?

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jasonDWB
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#2 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by jasonDWB » 19 Jun 2013 19:28

1. A simple and factual letter marked "formal complaint & letter before action", you tell the council what went wrong and how they should put it right.

2. Say how much you want them to pay you and set a deadline, Say why you want them to pay. Copy in the bailiff company

3. File a Form N1 at court to start your claim and copy in the bailiff company

4. Get the councils and bailiffs defence statements.

5 Strengthen yours based on their defence.

6. When the court says, complete an Allocation Questionnaire, and file your amended witness statement

7. Attend hearing - ask for everything including interest

8. Judgement, you get paid.

Et Voila!
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#3 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by soupdragon » 19 Jun 2013 19:34

As Contrails say best and simplest way is via the small claims court.

I`m interested to know exactly how much did you end up paying to remove the clamp from your car? What were they claiming before they clamped your car? How long was this after you paid the council? Which bailiff firm was it?

If you had the opportunity you should have cut off the clamp or used a locksmith to remove it.

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#4 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by Avenger » 19 Jun 2013 20:31

I didn't pay anything. I cut it off with an angle grinder.

How much should I sue them for?

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#5 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by Avenger » 19 Jun 2013 20:34

Happy C. I don't want to copy in the bailiffs. I am not after them. I already have their statement from the clamping case saying that I was not in when they made the first two visits, thus I am pressing the police commissioner to get the police to act on them. It's the council I am after for refusing to act in this matter.

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#6 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by jasonDWB » 19 Jun 2013 20:53

Ask for £1500 damages and let the council work down from there. See if you can tabulate a list of costs such as deprivation of use and altrernative transport costs as well at the £150 bolt cutters. Add £18 per hour for "discovery of information" to boot. Copy the bailiff companies and make a schedule of costs.

Here is a template to go after the police. A forum pundit elsewhere has been campaigning that the law on clamping does not apply to bailiffs, but if Parliament intended this, the legislation would say so. Currently only a clamping order signed by a magistrate under the Courts Act and the DVLA are exempt from criminal liability.
The Chief Superintendent
[NAME OF POLICE FORCE]
[ADDRESS1]
[ADDRESS2]
[ADDRESS3]
[POSTCODE]

[DATE]

Dear Sir/Madam


RE: Written Complaint of a Criminal Offence

I write to make a complaint against a person whose name I understand is Mr. [NAME] for having committed a criminal offence while trading as an enforcement officer for a company called [NAME OF BAILIFF COMPANY] whose website gives their address as [ADDRESS OF BAILIFF COMPANY]

On [DATE] at approximately [TIME] Mr. [NAME] used an immobilisation device on my motor vehicle a [MAKE AND MODEL] registration [ABC123] on land known as [ADDRESS OF WHERE VEHICLE IS IMMOBILISED].

I enclose a photograph of the vehicle at the scene.

The offence is committed under section 54 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... 54/enacted

I am happy to help you with your inquiries and stand as a prosecution witness at trial and I enclose photocopies of all documentation in this matter and retain the originals, which I undertake to produce in court if required to do so.

Meanwhile, please furnish me with the crime reference number.


Yours faithfully,



[YOUR NAME]
Enc. Copy of any supporting documents.



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#7 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by Avenger » 19 Jun 2013 22:52

Dear Mr Evely,

RE: Written Complaint of a Criminal Offence

I write to make a complaint against a Mr. James Cohen for having committed a criminal offence while trading as an enforcement officer for Rundles & Co. On 11/12/12 at approximately 09:00 Mr. Cohen used an immobilisation device on my vehicle, an Audi A4, registration BKL3 XXX on my property. The offence is committed under section 54 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... 54/enacted

Also, this was in pursuit of unlawful fees, pertaining to allegedly outstanding council tax which had already been paid, and visits which were not chargeable by law. I have reported this previously however, the police wrongly maintained that it was a civil matter, however, the Department for Communities and Local Government has published guidelines on this just recently, in which it states...

5.7 Public concern has been raised about the practice of some bailiffs undertaking ‘phantom visits’ – charging fees for action when no action was actually taken.

5.8 The Government consider that any fraudulent practices should be reported to the police as a criminal offence under the Fraud Act and that Local Authorities should terminate any contract with companies whose activities are proved fraudulent.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... rrears.doc

Rundles claim that they visited on 22nd October 2012 and on the 25th October 2012, yet I have a statement from Rundles (to the police, after I removed their clamp) confirming that I was not present on both visits to my house, both of which they attempted to charge for, along with spurious "attendance fees" on the first actual visit, which is not permitted by law under The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992. See revised fee schedules.

In light of this, will you now instruct your officers to take bailiff fraud seriously and investigate my complaint? I am happy to help you with your inquiries and stand as a prosecution witness at trial can provide photocopies of all documentation in this matter, which I undertake to produce in court if required to do so.

Meanwhile, could please furnish me with a crime reference number for this incident?


Yours sincerely,

Peter North.

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#8 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by jasonDWB » 19 Jun 2013 23:04

That is an excellent letter.

I for one would be interested to see how the police get out of that one. Ive also updated the free DWB template thanks to your help.
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#9 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by Truthful and honest » 18 Jul 2013 13:14

I believe that the action Avenger took has been confirmed as ILLEGAL and he now has a criminal record (if he didn't already have one before) People like you should just pay what is owed, rather than wasting your energies trying to wriggle out of paying what is fair and just. Shame on you

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#10 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by jasonDWB » 18 Jul 2013 13:21

How do you know avenger has a criminal record?

Who confirmed his action is illegal?
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#11 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by soupdragon » 18 Jul 2013 13:36

I believe that the action Avenger took has been confirmed as ILLEGAL and he now has a criminal record (if he didn't already have one before) People like you should just pay what is owed, rather than wasting your energies trying to wriggle out of paying what is fair and just. Shame on you
Amusing stuff. You know if you want to make up something to provide disinformation then please make your story semi believable.

Fair and just LOL

Here I`ll help you, if you want to claim his actions resulted in a criminal conviction the courts are at the moment rather busy so even IF the Police got involved AND his actions were illegal it would not all be over in less than FOUR weeks as you claim.

Worst trolling ever.

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#12 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by Truthful and honest » 18 Jul 2013 14:39

I suggest you ask Avenger. Thats if he ever comes back on here now he has dirty lying egg on his face. LMAO

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#13 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by jasonDWB » 18 Jul 2013 15:11

You have a problem with avenger and this forum is not the place. It only just provides methods of redress for wrongful bailiff action, not about personal differences between a bailiff and a debtor.
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#14 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by Truthful and honest » 18 Jul 2013 15:33

My only problem with Avenger would be that he is not putting the facts. Why should he be allowed to slander someone with no redress. I dont have a personal problem with him, just forums like this one and the lies he is spouting. This forum is a joke to be honest. People can come on here, twist things, make up a load of lies and name people who are totally innocent and have not done the things they are accused of, but becuase someone is bitter and twisted because they are being made to pay something that they do not want to, they can vent a load of poison on forums like this and have everyone else with chips on their shoulders back them up like a little cheersquad.
Im not a Bailiffs biggest fan, believe me, and I am sure some can be corrupt, but this forum has just turned into a witch hunt. Its sickening.
I accept there are people out there who may have genuine points to make, but when you listen to idiots like Avenger, who HAS been proven in the wrong, you are only demeening yourself, and your point.

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#15 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by Amy » 18 Jul 2013 15:38

Why is it ok for you to say what you like, but not for Avenger to? Free speech applies to all or it isn't really free speech at all is it?

What would you like me to do, remove his posts, but allow yours to stay?

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#16 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by jasonDWB » 18 Jul 2013 16:05

All you did was take the thread off topic and say a forum poster has a criminal record without quoting the source.

The purpose of this forum is providing redress for wrongful bailiff action. Avenger has asked how to sue a council and he got the answer. The only person starting a witchhunt is post #9 above.
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#17 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by soupdragon » 18 Jul 2013 16:07

Avenger is free to comment on his case as he wishes. If you have a personal issue with him and vice versa then that will not be welcome.

However if for any reason Avenger has been the subject of a criminal trial in a case where bailiff action has been questioned and as you claim to allege to know something about this, please post the case number, notes or court where the action took place so we can all see what really happened. If such a trial took place then it will be a matter of public record.

If you `bat for the other side` as you seem to suggest then there can be no issue about supplying that information as it can only strengthen your enforcement of debtors in the future right?

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#18 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by Truthful and honest » 18 Jul 2013 16:08

I am not personally naming Avenger for one.
Secondly, I am only defending myself against the accusations of jasonDWB, who accused me of having a personal problem with Avenger.
As I say, my problem is he should not be allowed to slander. His accusations have not been proven and yet you are allowing him to make all sorts of claims against this Mr Cohen, which you do not know are true or not.

My point it, you will never get anyone bother to log on to forums like this and say anything nice if they have been treated fairly, all you will get is people who are trying to avoid paying what is due, bleating on and in a lot of cases (although I admit not all cases) lying through their teeth.

People like that just take away from the benefit of this forum. Avenger has posted bad advice, and if somebody on here listened to him and did what he did, it would get them into even more trouble.

This should be a responsible forum, not full of b***s**t.

I hope anyone out there with a genuine grievance against a Bailiff, or the Council, or the Police, gets justice, good on em, but please, people would rather use their energies trying to avoid paying and spend hours on sites like this, rather than actually doing something about their situations.

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#19 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by Truthful and honest » 18 Jul 2013 16:13

And of course my comments wouldnt be welcome because Im not immediately jumping on the "kick the Bailiff, get one over on the Council, Sod the Police" bandwagon

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#20 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by Amy » 18 Jul 2013 16:38

Truthful and honest wrote:My point it, you will never get anyone bother to log on to forums like this and say anything nice if they have been treated fairly, all you will get is people who are trying to avoid paying what is due, bleating on and in a lot of cases (although I admit not all cases) lying through their teeth.
At the risk of pointing out the bleedin' obvious, we are a 'help' forum and people who have been treated fairly by a bailiff generally do not need help.

The view from your ivory tower must be lovely this time of year.

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#21 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by soupdragon » 18 Jul 2013 17:21

Or for that matter this
People can come on here, twist things, make up a load of lies
Well bailiffs and council employees have been known to fall squarely into this category. Bailiffs made up and extortionate fees that have no basis in law being the number one problem for most people. If they stuck to the law then there would be no need to complain, its that simple. There would be no need of this forum and no one would need to post about the same problems over and over again as it seems there are a lot of repeat problems out there.

A lot of repeat problems seems to say the problem is widespread, not just the result of a few bad apples as you suggest.

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#22 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by Avenger » 08 Aug 2013 00:08

I don't know who this troll is, but and I'm not going to get into a flame war. All I will say is this:

If anyone really thinks I am being slanderous, they are welcome to see me in court. But they must be able to prove that the bailiff visits took place, and must be able to demonstrate the lawful authority by which they clamped my car.

I am of the view that councils and bailiffs are not exempt from the law, and so it seems do the police who are now finally investigating Rundles for fraud and sundry other criminal activity. Neither Rundles nor the council have been able provide evidence of their visits.

Yes, I did have to defend myself for criminal damage in removing the clamp. I lost but an appeal is in the works whereby I shall have full representation, so until such a time as the appeal is heard, the verdict counts for nothing - and i do not have a criminal record.

That said, the verdict was not a judgement on whether the bailiff activity was lawful, merely an assessment of whether my actions constituted a lawful excuse. The magistrates made no judgement on the bailiff activity and only ruled that other options were available to me. Consequently, the outcome of the case does not prejudice any police investigation into Rundles or the council, and does not prevent me from taking civil action against Rundles which will happen in due course. I have not been proven wrong - and the case is still on-going.

As to "People like you should just pay what is owed, rather than wasting your energies trying to wriggle out of paying what is fair and just." Fair and just where council tax is concerned is entirely in the eye of the beholder, though there is body of law outlining what bailiffs may charge and the circumstances by which they can.

I stand by my assertion that Rundles have broken the law, and one way or another, this will be brought before the courts, if not by police action, then by civil action. - And ultimately I will accept the final word of a judge in a crown court as to the legality, rather than a troll, who is either some saddo from my facebook attempting a wind-up, or someone from Rundles who has reason to be concerned. If it is the latter, you are right to be concerned because you fucked with someone who doesn't back down and won''t be intimidated - and in the end, this will cost you much more than it costs me.

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#23 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by jasonDWB » 08 Aug 2013 09:15

If your representative wishes to speak to to clarify some of the finer points, I am happy to do so.
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#24 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by Avenger » 08 Aug 2013 09:15

Truthful and honest wrote: Im not a Bailiffs biggest fan, believe me, and I am sure some can be corrupt, but this forum has just turned into a witch hunt. Its sickening.
Well if you really "Truthful and honest", you will have no problem admitting that you are Nicola Spring, a registered bailiff of Rundle & co who works directly for James Cohen.

Dahling, don't ever bullshit a computer programmer. See you in court. ;)

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#25 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by Avenger » 08 Aug 2013 16:19

I might be worth noting that forum trolling is now an MO of Rundles:

http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/ba ... erandi.htm

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#26 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by jasonDWB » 08 Aug 2013 17:34

A number of bailiff companies do it, the most notorious is Marston Group who has an official apologist working on the CAG forums.
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#27 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by Avenger » 08 Aug 2013 20:20

Truthful and honest wrote: I hope anyone out there with a genuine grievance against a Bailiff, or the Council, or the Police, gets justice, good on em,
So, Ms Spring, in light of your newly found concern for justice, I presume you will be giving this individual a refund?

http://www.thisissussex.co.uk/Bailiff-c ... z2Ya4bvW85
When the bailiff, employed by Rundles – which collects late payments on behalf of the council – arrived at the 38-year-old's home in Hermits Road, Three Bridges, she thought he was there to discuss the plan. But when she let him inside he presented her with a £950 bill, which included a £500 late payment charge.
Is this your definition of "totally innocent"?

Your company exploits the complexity of the law (and the loopholes therein) to defraud the vulnerable by using intimidation, loitering, blockading, misrepresentation of powers, unlawful fees and unlawful clamping. You do this because you know people do not know their rights and are too intimidated by your company's thuggish behaviour to stand up for themselves - and don't necessarily have the skills or the funds to navigate the law. You are without honour and without decency. You are exploitative, predatory parasites and you are morally corrupt.

Most decent people would call your activities theft. You have only got away with it thus far because the police previously considered it a civil matter. That is no longer the case because I have put you on the police radar, and with you being utterly inept in your record keeping and sloppy in your methods, you will make a mistake eventually - and when you do, either you or Cohen will be facing jail time and/or a large fine. If I do end up with a criminal record I can live with that. I have only been bound over, which is neither here nor there, but if it puts one or both of you in jail (or on the dole), it will have been worth it.

I don't care how long this takes - and I am past the point of intimidation. I am on to you, I won't back down and you are being very closely watched. Your grubby little scam is coming to an end.

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#28 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by OlafRye » 08 Aug 2013 22:13

It amazes me that the bailiffs spend time on these boards justifying their actions. Their business is vile and they exist only because of a stroke of a pen. If they claim that they are only following orders, let me remind them that Eichmann hanged for this using exactly the same arguments. They are collecting money to keep corrupt and useless bureaucrats employed and do this happily because it provides them with an opportunity to pay their bills. It will not be long until someone puts these low-lives down and then I expect they will regard themselves as victims.

I suppose that the lesson learned is that you get rid of their clamps in a local river and claim to know nothing about them. The civil cases are just starting to come, and I hope that individual bailiffs are done for fraud. They are a group held in only marginally less contempt than child molesters.

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#29 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by jimbop » 09 Aug 2013 09:24

'truthful and honest'!!
if there ever was a piss taking forum name this ones the guvnor!

wishing you all the best avenger, please keep us informed of any progress.

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#30 Re: How do I go about suing the council?

Post by jasonDWB » 22 Apr 2014 22:41

Have you made a Caulderbank offer to the police ? Make an offer to discontinue the prosecution or pay damages if you are acquitted.
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